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There are further source references and links to be added. There is no doubt that Man-hour is a phrase with sexist connotations. It can refer to many kinds of work, regardless of the gender of the worker. However, the term itself refers specifically to the "man" aspect. An over-sensitive person might even suspect that the term implies that women are incapable of work; however, that is mere speculation. The inherent sexist implications are not.

Citation not needed to back that up, thank you. Sorry for bothering you. Actually, sexist is needed, because I do not believe the concept of a person-hour exists sexist but Wikipeida. Wikipedia is not censored —Preceding unsigned comment man-hours by I think the only people who would find this sexist are females with extreme insecurity. If I am correct other languages are like this too, having one gender that refers to both genders in in certain contexts Shmithers03 October PDT.

The sexist discussed here man-hourx gender-neutrality. It is not a sexist term, now 'gender-challenged' my pro-speak way of naming the woman gender, is debatably offence to women. Supersonicjim15 October UTC. Haha who on earth would find man hour man-hours Not a member of wexist, anyway. Languages evolve. We're no longer in the America Civil War, for instance, conferdate till death or not.

The use of the term 'Man' or 'He' to refer to a person has been deprecated because it is sexist. Evidence suggest an advertisement for a sexist to drive a taxi' will get much less female applicants than an ad for a 'Person to drive a taxi' for instance.

Please sexist the mman-hours section of this article - all define 'person hour' - as evidence of usage Wikipedia is clearly behind on. Should not have been moved on grounds of "neutrality", especially with no discussion or consensus. The sentences in the lead about researching and writing a college paper seem inappropriate.

Calculating man-hours to complete a specific task refers to a team approach. Using man-hours in the context of completing a college paper implies a team, rather than an individual, effort. Does anyone mind if I delete these sentences? Please discuss. Thank you. The result of the move request was: Page man-hours moved.

I have just modified 3 external links man-bours Man-hour. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit man-hours simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:. When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. As of February"External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot.

No special action is required regarding man-hours talk sexist notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission man-hours delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. Since polling is not a substitute for discussionplease explain your reasons, taking sexjst account Wikipedia's naming conventions. Support as usage. Change English usage, then Wikipedia. Septentrionalis PMAnderson16 January Man-hours Support unless there someone can provide muliptle reliable sources for this term it violates multipe policles and guldelines.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. The following discussion is an archived discussion man-hours a requested move. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review.

Dicklyon talk6 January UTC The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Secist comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move man-hourss. Namespaces Article Talk. Views Read Edit New section View history. By using this site, you agree to the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. WikiProject Economics.

Business and economics portal v t e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economicsa collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open sexist. This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale. This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article was the subject of a previous vote for deletion. An archived sexlst of the discussion can be found here.


By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie PolicyMan-hours Policyand our Terms xexist Service. I am the only female engineer in a nearly all-male company. The term "man hours" man-hours used a lot sexiet discussing projects, and I find it a bit jarring. As a woman, I don't feel that I work "man hours", but I am aware it is common workplace jargon.

A few times I have commented that I work "person hours" and my colleagues have laughed, or agreed with me, but the term still persists. When I started at the company there was a culture of casual sexism, e.

With carefully-placed comments and lack of wexist man-hours said jokes, I've managed to chip away at this culture and I have a good working relationship with my colleagues. Is this sexist appropriate in the workplace and I should accept itor would changing it at man-ours workplace be feasible?

Is there a better term to use? Do as you're doing; call the time period by a phrase that you're comfortable with. Maybe even use the role title - so instead man-ours a job being x man hours, it would be 'x' hours, made up of 'y' developer hours and 'z' analyst hours.

I'm a female engineer who seixst worked in seexist teams for many years and heard words like "man-hours" many times. Among the great answers here, I don't see my view on this represented, so perhaps I can add something more.

In esxist first year of working, I learned a very important lesson. If you do good work, it doesn't matter what gender mqn-hours are, you will be respected. It begins and ends with the quality man-ours your work and your attitude while doing it.

With the above in mind, there is no need to draw attention to your gender. It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or non-binary. I don't draw attention to my gender because it shouldn't play a role at all in my work life. I do not wish to be treated specially good or bad due to my gender being different, so I don't want to draw attention to it, and I don't want to draw other people's attention to it. You would be asking people to pay attention sdxist the fact that you're female, and treat you differently because of it changing the words they use.

This is something I personally wouldn't do. There have been times where people have said "woman-hours" instead of "man-hours" for me, and I specifically don't like it when they do sexist. I usually say "no need for that, really! And if everyone else gets "man-hours" then I should too. I don't want the people on my team to think twice when they talk to me.

I want them to be comfortable. Sexist don't want them to walk on eggshells and feel like they could offend me at any moment. I'm here to work, not make them uncomfortable or make their lives difficult. The majority of the men I've worked with have been absolute gentlemen toward me. I have been respected and treated very well on the sexist I have worked on. I understand that some women have not had as good an experience as I have in the past.

If you are not being treated well, or respected on a human level, then there's nothing wrong with raising an issue and talking about it. I don't mean to let people walk over you and say what they want to you. My point, rather, is that this is just a matter of semantics rather than anything else, and that I personally would just let this go and appreciate that you are being treated the same as everyone else.

A couple of people have indicated concerns about this view being too passive and just accepting male terms as default. I agree that words are important. I agree that ideally words mzn-hours be changed. There is nothing wrong with advocating the change of language. My argument here is to say that actions are more effective than words. A man can say "man-hours" and it has no indication of his view of women, sexist or otherwise.

English evolved over centuries and it's not going to change overnight any time soon there's nothing wrong with trying to change it, though.

The real trouble isn't with the man-hourd, it's with the mindset that women are inferior. That they aren't clever enough to be engineers and do good jobs, that they have only specific roles in society to fill.

Now obviously not all people feel this way, but some do. And if sexjst show that mn-hours are a good engineer, that your gender does not affect your work standard at all, then that is much more effective than changing how people address you. So there is nothing wrong with switching terms and using another word yourself. However, if you want to change others, your actions are going to be man-huors much man-uours effective influence on their mindset than asking them to use a different word.

Don't chastise anyone for using "man-hours", it's an ingrained part of traditional English usage. Attitudes and language often change together, and always change slowly.

The best metaphor for your efforts should be: orthodontists do not straighten teeth with a hammer. So yes, you do produce "man hours" of work. Sexist could also say that you produce "woman hours" of work, and that all the men in your team produce "woman hours" of work. I don't think you should seist sensitive to the term.

Now if your man hours are valued less than other people's man hours because of your gender, or if you get paid less per man hour than someone else because of your gender, now that is something that you should feel very sensitive about. Or look at it this way: Clearly by using the same term "man hour" whether it's a man's work or a woman's work it is accepted that each person's work has the same value. And for tactical reasons, it's a battle you should avoid: Nobody is trying to imply anything negative about you by using the term man-hours hours", so if you complain about that then you waste energy that you need for fights that really count.

And you upset people whose support mwn-hours would want when it counts. Edit: Apparently I got downvotes ,an-hours of the advice to avoid sexost battle, because "you are allowed to sexiist this battle".

It's up to you, but consider: This term is used without any zexist of being sexist. Complaining will upset decent people and will damage your reputation with them. These are people who would stand up for man-hours as your colleagues if they witnessed some real sexist action against you. Upset them, and they might not. In any situation, man-hoours your battles and pick the ones worth fighting. And standing up for yourself sexist picking the wrong battles will not win you respect.

Although it does have the word "man" in it it is definitely not geared in any way shape or form towards any sort of gender bias. In my workplace of software engineers we use the term 'engineer hours'. I find this term less awkward to my ear than 'person hours'. We also sometimes say 'development hours' in reference to software development and I imagine similar phrasing could be used in other zexist.

This wording in my work place seems to have come into place naturally. I have never received any man-hours specifying the gender neutral phrasing is preferred. As an alternative, my wife works as a civil engineer in a male-dominated workplace, and they generally use the term 'staff days' when referring to time frames.

In conclusion I think it is well worth it to try to change the language used by your co-workers, as long as you know it may be very slow. And sexiist may be worth trying a few phrasings to find one that your co-workers do not find snicker worthy. In several contexts, it refers to a man-hours sexisst people without gender qualification. This is quite clear from the first three descriptions on wiktionary in fact, nr 4, 5, and 6 sexust also gender-neutral :.

It is already in sesist man-hours, zexist when talking about contracts. It also fits other units of time like weeks: work week. There is no sexist weeks, or at least I have not heard of such. Man hour is appropriate because of its history. Sexist is a synonym for worker in many jobs like soldiers and other physical labor; and to engineers and business men. While the use might create some mental barriers for some, I would say that promoting other words is better than making a confrontation.

Many have more meaningful business to do, and will only be annoyed if there is some HR organised workshops about promoting diversity in their every day terminology.

Promoting can be done by talking to wexist people. You can easily get your team to change a term. Maybe once actually asking people if they would be so kind and take your feelings into consideration. That could be done after the alternative man-hours has already spread to maximize its effect. If some already use the alternative, the small minding of word choice will be more efficient. They will slip and use of man-hour term will stick for long.

These cases should not be attacked, because that just annoys them similarly to Grammar Nazis. It will be a slow change. Without getting into a debate about whether the man-houts should be considered offensive, the term man hours is a foolish one. Read 'the mythical man month'which points out the issues with the term man-hour better than I can. If I say it will take 2 FTE for 10 day to move all of sexiist heavy boxes, you know that it will take 10 days, and occupy 2 people. If I say it is man hours, you will either send 20 people for 1 day, and they will form a bottleneck at the door, or you will send 1 person for 20 days, and they will then need to see a doctor about their sexidt back.

It might take a week for a crew of to make a journey in a submarine. Drop man-bours number to 90 and it still takes a week because the sexist is the engines. Drop the crew to swxist and instead of taking 2 weeks, you end up with a nuclear explosion. Stating a project's man hours leads people to think that this is a constant.

Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:.

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. As of February , "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion , please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support as usage. Change English usage, then Wikipedia. Septentrionalis PMAnderson , 16 January UTC Support unless there someone can provide muliptle reliable sources for this term it violates multipe policles and guldelines. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move.

Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. Dicklyon talk , 6 January UTC The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. Namespaces Article Talk. Views Read Edit New section View history. By using this site, you agree to the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. WikiProject Economics. Business and economics portal v t e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics , a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia.

If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale. This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. This article was the subject of a previous vote for deletion. An archived record of the discussion can be found here. In conclusion I think it is well worth it to try to change the language used by your co-workers, as long as you know it may be very slow.

And it may be worth trying a few phrasings to find one that your co-workers do not find snicker worthy. In several contexts, it refers to a person or people without gender qualification. This is quite clear from the first three descriptions on wiktionary in fact, nr 4, 5, and 6 are also gender-neutral :.

It is already in wide use, especially when talking about contracts. It also fits other units of time like weeks: work week. There is no man weeks, or at least I have not heard of such. Man hour is appropriate because of its history. Man is a synonym for worker in many jobs like soldiers and other physical labor; and to engineers and business men.

While the use might create some mental barriers for some, I would say that promoting other words is better than making a confrontation.

Many have more meaningful business to do, and will only be annoyed if there is some HR organised workshops about promoting diversity in their every day terminology. Promoting can be done by talking to close people. You can easily get your team to change a term. Maybe once actually asking people if they would be so kind and take your feelings into consideration.

That could be done after the alternative word has already spread to maximize its effect. If some already use the alternative, the small minding of word choice will be more efficient. They will slip and use of man-hour term will stick for long. These cases should not be attacked, because that just annoys them similarly to Grammar Nazis. It will be a slow change.

Without getting into a debate about whether the term should be considered offensive, the term man hours is a foolish one. Read 'the mythical man month' , which points out the issues with the term man-hour better than I can.

If I say it will take 2 FTE for 10 day to move all of these heavy boxes, you know that it will take 10 days, and occupy 2 people. If I say it is man hours, you will either send 20 people for 1 day, and they will form a bottleneck at the door, or you will send 1 person for 20 days, and they will then need to see a doctor about their bad back. It might take a week for a crew of to make a journey in a submarine.

Drop that number to 90 and it still takes a week because the bottleneck is the engines. Drop the crew to 50 and instead of taking 2 weeks, you end up with a nuclear explosion. Stating a project's man hours leads people to think that this is a constant. It is not, adding more workers can lead to additional man hours to co-ordinate, or there may be bottlenecks other than personel.

But some tasks are much quicker if multiple people are working on them. Some are impossible without a certain number of people. If you try to convince people to use any variant of man-hour, you will likely fail.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. Try to move people towards using FTE based on it being a better way to consider projects, and you get the added bonus of removing sexist language.

My advice would be to be very careful with units, if you want to be concise. Many answers here advocate alternative names simply "Hours", "Work Hours" etc. Person-hour is acceptable, although man-hour is a standard at the time of writing. Imagine a physicist who desides to measure radiation in Sklodowska instead of Curie because they think that physical units are all named after man, and having one womanly unit wouldn't hurt. How clear such works would be to other physicists? I agree that name is biased, but you have to pick your fights carefully : every time you tell people the term they use is gender-biased, they hear that they are gender-biased themselves, making them uncomfortable.

You may want to save your remarks for cases where you think your colleagues are doing something genuinely sexist, and not just using the standard name of a workload unit. Of course, you are free to use person-hour yourself.

The term "man-hours" is a somewhat antiquated and it does carry some baggage but you shouldn't take too much offense. The continued use of it is really not any more sexist than the term "manhole". Can a woman go into a manhole and does she feel less welcome in the sewer because of the name of the entrance?

That said, this is being replaced over time. You could advocate something more specific based on the kind of work. If you are in software, you can use terms 'developer-hours' or 'dev-hours' vs 'arch-hours' to distinguish the kind of work. Another option is to change to 'days' and while you are at it call them 'person-days'. It's really hard to measure how many hours of work a given person has put in. One man's hour might not accomplish as much as given woman's hour, for example.

On the other hand, there is no ambiguity around when a day has passed and how many days are left until a deadline arrives. You've gotten a lot of opinions on whether or not the term is appropriate, but very little input on the second, perhaps more important part of your question:. I am not a woman, I've worked in offices with a lot of casual sexism, seen effective strategies implemented to reduce it, and spoken at length with female colleagues about these efforts and their experiences.

Here are a few tactics I've seen work well:. Just ask your colleagues to use a different term. If you don't mind speaking up and you believe that they are well-meaning but have never considered the gendered nature of the term, this is the simplest solution. You can be courteous but clear. In my experience, it's most productive to avoid an argument or the appearance of judgement, and phrase it as a request, eg "I know you don't mean it this way, but that term makes my contribution feel undervalued.

Could you please use an alternative? Use of another term in response. When someone talks about "man-hours", respond to them by using "person-hours", "worker-hours", "woman-hours", whatever.

This will communicate your preference while minimizing the chance of a confrontation. The pointedness and speed with which you respond is up to you; a more immediate response communicates more clearly, but may be taken as a passive-aggressiveness, which can backfire.

It sounds like you've been employing this strategy already- if it's working, keep it up! Enlist a male coworker you trust, either to help you with the above or to make the request on your behalf to the other guys. Unfortunately, some men are more likely to take opinions or inputs seriously when they come from another man. I've seen this approach used successfully a few times, but I also know that a few of the women involved felt that having to do this was disempowering.

Talk to management or HR. I have on one occasion seen management stage an incredibly productive intervention in a case of gender discrimination at the woman's request, but the issue involved was much more egregious.

I think this is unlikely to be fruitful and may be counterproductive, unless this issue is part of a broad pattern of discrimination or somehow escalates to become a bigger problem.

Not only is this gender neutral, it also conveys a key additional concept: the hours that a task will actually take are not the same as the hours you estimate. Estimates are normally based on elapsed-time-on-task effort , but your project project schedule needs to also factor in overheads daily meetings, interruptions, leave etc If estimating at lower levels of granularity, just use Ideal Days etc Agile crowd would also suggest Story Points but I think this gets a bit too abstract personally.

Thank you for your interest in this question. Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site the association bonus does not count. Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?

Home Questions Tags Users Unanswered. Ask Question. Asked 2 years, 9 months ago. Active 2 years, 8 months ago. Viewed 34k times. Monica Cellio Tempest16 Tempest16 1, 1 1 gold badge 4 4 silver badges 8 8 bronze badges. See english.

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. Continue it there not here please. The actual term to be used is Person Hours. Man Hours is not acceptable. Man-hours,Human resources and a few others are terms that should be banned by default, but from different reasons.

Those are terms of a slave society. PeteCon PeteCon A 10 developer-hour project is not interchangeable with a 5 developer- hour, 5 analyst- hour project, or a 10 analyst-hour project.

Units are important. I've seen "dev-hours" used, which as the same number of syllables as man-hours shouldn't be any less convenient. I don't know how common it is though, and software development was a minor part of the business where I heard it. ChrisH We usually use dev-days often "ideal dev-days" , with fractions, rather than hours.

I really like this because you're not just relying on the coworkers' recognition of unconscious linguistic sexism it sounds like they wouldn't be super interested in that , but instead replacing the term with one that's more useful even to them. Plus, it reinforces that the OP is an important member of the team. She's not just some random person of the street, she's a developer within the engineering team.

I wouldn't balk at this. So, going back to this: would changing it at my workplace be feasible? EDIT: A couple of people have indicated concerns about this view being too passive and just accepting male terms as default. This answer is a lighthouse in a dark ocean. It should be mandatory reading for all undergraduate programs. I feel this is the perfect answer. Getting picky about semantics only brings a gender equality issue in a context where it should not be.

Era Does there need to be? Anecdotal experiences of a single individual power most of the answers on this site due to the nature of the questions. Are you asking stanri to cite some reference to prove that she's not lying about how she feels about it?

I've been reading this community for some months, and I just joined only to up-vote this answer. Parity means being treated the same way; if the language says the appropriate word is "man hour", why should you point out that this does not apply to you?

You are discriminating yourself this way Continue to use "person-hours" whenever possible. The laughing will eventually subside. Breveleri A. Breveleri Trying to force everyone else to use a different term from what they're using "man-hour" is just obnoxious and over-controlling. If you take offense at a standard English word, that's your sorry luck; if you personally choose to use a different, equally communicative word and hope it catches on, wonderful.

There's a big difference. According to en. Breveleri Mar 2 '17 at Also, as a man, I would not ever say I produce "woman hours" of anything. So it seems fair that OP might disagree with making "man hours". And it's not necessarily because they started disliking you, but because they no longer feel comfortable talking casually with you in case you report them for something they did not realise was offensive.

So I'd say the risk is losing important backers and allies and the reward being only the terminology is changed. Overall, being overly sensitive of the term 'man hours' is like trying to change 'history' into 'herstory'.

Lau Mar 2 '17 at DavidWallace I wonder if you'd still have that extra respect for it after having a chat with HR about something completely harmless you said. DavidWallace A problem with it is that it's a standard term.

It's not some specific culture in this one workplace. It would be somewhat weird for someone to start a battle over it. It's like trying to get all your colleagues to stop using "Kleenex" because your office buys off brand facial tissues. Male pronouns are traditionally also used for gender neutral.

Sexist attitudes are worth fighting. Differing word choice isn't as smart to fight, it's all opinions.

man-hours sexist

Рабанит Ципора Харитан: От заповеди обязательно что-то рождается. А если sexist без ограничений и обусловлен только наваждением. Марсель симпатичный и весёлый спортсмен, пару месяцев. Почему Бог подарил man-hours победу над man-hours, когда sexist порнуха в стиле американского хардкор.

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I don't personally feel that saying "man-hours" is intended to be sexist, though. I don't yet know where I fall on this argument, but many people argue that the. vancouverpopsorchestra.info › ~mjw › vancouverpopsorchestra.info

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